quote:

Originally posted by CaneThing:
The reality is that Meyer didn't get the most of out of Harvin. Troy Aikman implied this yesterday when he said, "These are routes that Percy just didn't run at the University of Florida." Meyer was asking Harvin to beat D-linemen and linebackers when his natural dominance blossoms in squaring up with D-backs. He's just now becoming the player he's capable of becoming and you will see him continue to grow/flourish over the next 3 years now that he is in an accredited system.

This isn't a solo attack on UF, tho. Coker screwed up with Hester and we only got 1/4 of his potential out of him at The U. It happens, even at the highest rated, most credible NFL factories like The U. Bottom line: coaches need to let players be players.

Percy has pretty much always been the most talented player on the field from the first day he started playing football as a little kid, and that is likely to continue even at the NFL level. He dominated at UF and if anything was over-used at times.

Hester is a guy who has uncanny ability/instinct to make people miss in the open field but as has been noted multiple times previously, is limited by his ignorance. He reportedly is nearly illiterate and could never grasp the playbook which is what kept him out a starting role at scUM.

Harvin>Hester

quote:

Originally posted by WashingtonDCGator:
Harvin>>>>Hester

I fixed it for you.

Percy is highly skilled and the game comes natural to him a lot of the times.

And that's really the point of my post: too often coaches get these guys and become so enamorated with them that they putting them all over the field and, at the end of the day, they haven't truly developed at their original position.

It's not just a UF criticism. Some of the best coaches can make this easy mistake - it's just that at UF it's more pronounced b/c of the goofy systems you've had.

It may be hard to visualize what I'm talking about through a message board, but envision a swim meet...each swimmer stays in his lane and swims his particular stroke. Once you start demanding the ball on every down and from different positions on the field, you've hurt yourself b/c you're out of your element. Some of the most important skills are developed by playing your position and not getting the ball: footwork, route-running, selling a route to deke the defense, etc...you have to stay in your lane. At the end of the day you'll be better developed and worth more in the draft.

And Ox, while I agree injuries did play a role, I don't buy that his pot smoking hurt him that much. I think what hurt him was the scouts discovering that he hadn't learned 6 of the 10 most important NFL routes on "draft workout day" at the Swamp. Percy even admitted to not being polished at many of those NFL routes in his Gatorsports.com interview. This was the major failure by the spread system, imo.

quote:

Originally posted by CaneThing:
The reality is that Meyer didn't get the most of out of Harvin. Troy Aikman implied this yesterday when he said, "These are routes that Percy just didn't run at the University of Florida." Meyer was asking Harvin to beat D-linemen and linebackers when his natural dominance blossoms in squaring up with D-backs. He's just now becoming the player he's capable of becoming and you will see him continue to grow/flourish over the next 3 years now that he is in an accredited system.

This isn't a solo attack on UF, tho. Coker screwed up with Hester and we only got 1/4 of his potential out of him at The U. It happens, even at the highest rated, most credible NFL factories like The U. Bottom line: coaches need to let players be players.

Are you kidding me? I've heard some bad analysis from you but this is absolutely the worst.

Everyone, and I mean everyone who has spoken about Percy as a prospect has suggested that the team drafting him utilize him like Meyers and get the kid as many touches as humanly possible. Percy should be catching screens, running the wildcat, taking handoffs when AP needs a rest, and catching receptions.

Meanwhile, the NFL is all about mismatches, what you are suggesting goes against EVERYTHING that Offensive coordinators work for. Harvin needs to match up against linebackers and defensive lineman, because if he gets that kind of match up, he has won. You can only hope to get a db or safety on him early to try to neutralize him, but a great offense (Florida and now Minnesota) moves him all around the field in order to creat mismatches.

Seriously, drop the Meyer's offense is detrimental crap already, it's getting old. The only mistake Meyer's may have made was not allowing Harvin to run back kicks or punts, but then again, the kid was often injured and we had Brandon James. By the way accredited system? Are you seriously that stupid? Most Minnesota boards like Purplepride.com were begging for their coach to use Harvin like Florida did and spread him all over the field. Watch a Vikings game, please. They are placing Harvin all over the field, including behind the quarterback. Minnesota has been taking a few plays out of the Gator's playbook because they know they needed to get the ball in Harvin's hands as often as possible and in space.


Meanwhile, Aikman can just shut it because I'm certain he's watched two Florida games in the last three years, both of them national championships.

Seriously, Canethug, stick to things you know something about, like fashion. UM looked fresh this weekend while struggling against Wake Forest.

quote:

Originally posted by CaneThing:
Percy is highly skilled and the game comes natural to him a lot of the times.

And that's really the point of my post: too often coaches get these guys and become so enamorated with them that they putting them all over the field and, at the end of the day, they haven't truly developed at their original position.

It's not just a UF criticism. Some of the best coaches can make this easy mistake - it's just that at UF it's more pronounced b/c of the goofy systems you've had.

It may be hard to visualize what I'm talking about through a message board, but envision a swim meet...each swimmer stays in his lane and swims his particular stroke. Once you start demanding the ball on every down and from different positions on the field, you've hurt yourself b/c you're out of your element. Some of the most important skills are developed by playing your position and not getting the ball: footwork, route-running, selling a route to deke the defense, etc...you have to stay in your lane. At the end of the day you'll be better developed and worth more in the draft.

And Ox, while I agree injuries did play a role, I don't buy that his pot smoking hurt him that much. I think what hurt him was the scouts discovering that he hadn't learned 6 of the 10 most important NFL routes on "draft workout day" at the Swamp. Percy even admitted to not being polished at many of those NFL routes in his Gatorsports.com interview. This was the major failure by the spread system, imo.

Again, seriously quit.

Meanwhile, I would venture to say that playing at Florida benefited Harvin in more ways then playing at a traditional school could ever have. At a Miami or USC, Harvin would have been relegated to just a pure receiver and maybe seen 4-5 catches a game because you are supposedly trying to throw the ball around and of course you would have to consider double teams. At Florida, Harvin got the chance to play tailback and run out of the shotgun. Running like this, taught him to see the field through the eyes of a running back, read his blocks and make the right moves downfield in order to break a big play. This is a skill most receivers lack. A big time receiver focuses on running a route, catching the ball, and then making moves to get by corners and safeties. Harvin arguably has the skill set of a running back and a receiver now. He may need to work on his route running a little, but learning to run routes is a joke in comparison to what he has taken away from Florida and that is field vision. When Harvin catches a pass he sees the field like a running back would. Notice his kick returns, his field vision is way ahead of the scale because of his play at UF. Not to mention that he has the first step to make people pay for being out of position.

Have to comment on Chandler for some of our younger fans. First a couple of quotes:

"During his career with the Gators, he caught 92 passes for 1,963 yards and a (then) school record 22 touchdowns in a run-oriented offense, adding 6 more scores on rushes and kick returns."

"After college, Chandler was drafted by the New Orleans Saints with the third overall selection in the 1978 NFL Draft. Chandler was selected to the Pro Bowl after his second season in the league after finishing with 1,069 yards and 6 touchdown receptions. He led the NFL in receiving yards (1,032) and receiving touchdowns (9) for the strike-shortened 1982 season. His 129 yards receiving per game that year is still an NFL record [2]. One of his more notable performances was in a 1981 AFC playoff game known as The Epic In Miami, where he caught six passes for 106 yards and returned a punt 56 yards for a touchdown in the Chargers 41-38 victory. He also caught nine passes for 124 yards in a playoff win over the Pittsburgh Steelers in the following season."

Checking the Florida record book Chandler still has the highest career yards per catch (21.3) and the highest career TD reception ratio (a TD every 4.18 catches) of any Florida receiver ever. By my personal observations of both careers, Chandler was every bit as elusive as Harvin and had maybe the best hands of any Florida receiver ever. We actually had a decent passing game his soph and junior years, but we had no effective passer his senior year and he was inserted as tailback some of the time.

Number 3 pick in the draft isn't too shabby followed by a pro bowl NFL career.

quote:

Originally posted by mtn2top:

quote:

Originally posted by WashingtonDCGator:

quote:

Originally posted by mtn2top:

quote:

Originally posted by WashingtonDCGator:
People in Minnesota and NFL fans are just now witnessing something that we saw for three years. I'm only 27 so I didn't have the good fortune to see some of the older Gator greats, but to me, Percy had the most natural athletic ability of any Gator that I've seen. Quezzie was up there, but I think Percy edges him out.

I was fortunate to see Wes Chandler play and he's the only player whom I believe can compare with Percy Harvin as a Gator playmaker. Harvin was a game changer in every game he played for the Gators and nearly impossible to defend in his hybrid role. Just think of the kind of stats he would have had here returning kicks?

See, I would have loved to witness Wes playing! Percy returning kicks would have been silly. I'm kind of glad he didn't though only because of the injury factor since he was a staple on our offense. Everyone points to Tim during our '06 NC run, but many forget that Percy was the first frosh every to win SEC Champ. game MVP honors, and he also was awarded the SEC Frosh. of the Year trophy. I am so glad that his game is translating over on the next level. He's a beast!

The difference with Wes Chandler was that Coach Doug Dickey didn't really know how to use him. We had a run-oriented offense in those years. He would have had great numbers under Pell, Hall and unbelievable stats under Spurrier or Meyer.

Dickey was an idiot. If Wes only had the coaching we have today.

Actually the statement Troy Aikman made about Harvin was not only wrong , it was just plain stupid.
Harvin ran a 5 yard in pattern before Troy said that Harvin wasn't running patterns like this at Florida. What?
Einstein then went on to say that Florida didn't use him down the field. What?

First, the pattern was only five yards deep, how is that using him down the field.

Second, do you mean to tell me that Florida never had Harvin run across the middle?

Troy was spewing the same mantra that the spread does not prepare you for the NFL. Really?
Last time I checked, our Gator receivers were doing quite well.

I like Troy but he has no idea what he is talking about some of the time. Must have been too many concussions.

quote:

Originally posted by wyogator:
Have to comment on Chandler for some of our younger fans. First a couple of quotes:

"During his career with the Gators, he caught 92 passes for 1,963 yards and a (then) school record 22 touchdowns in a run-oriented offense, adding 6 more scores on rushes and kick returns."

"After college, Chandler was drafted by the New Orleans Saints with the third overall selection in the 1978 NFL Draft. Chandler was selected to the Pro Bowl after his second season in the league after finishing with 1,069 yards and 6 touchdown receptions. He led the NFL in receiving yards (1,032) and receiving touchdowns (9) for the strike-shortened 1982 season. His 129 yards receiving per game that year is still an NFL record [2]. One of his more notable performances was in a 1981 AFC playoff game known as The Epic In Miami, where he caught six passes for 106 yards and returned a punt 56 yards for a touchdown in the Chargers 41-38 victory. He also caught nine passes for 124 yards in a playoff win over the Pittsburgh Steelers in the following season."

Checking the Florida record book Chandler still has the highest career yards per catch (21.3) and the highest career TD reception ratio (a TD every 4.18 catches) of any Florida receiver ever. By my personal observations of both careers, Chandler was every bit as elusive as Harvin and had maybe the best hands of any Florida receiver ever. We actually had a decent passing game his soph and junior years, but we had no effective passer his senior year and he was inserted as tailback some of the time.

Number 3 pick in the draft isn't too shabby followed by a pro bowl NFL career.

Wow, thanks for the history lesson. I wish I had the pleasure of watching Wes play. He sounds like he was one hell of an athlete!

I have to agree with those in this thread who are slamming Aikman. The announcing "team" was totally obsessed with talking about Percy, but their anecdotes and opinions were as usual unfounded.

It's pathetic to hear a guy on national TV talk about things he clearly hasn't studied in depth.

Vikes just happened to be on yesterday, and Troy had to say something to take up the dead air. Freakin' Thom "5 down" Brennanmen was there too taking Troy as gospel.

What a ridiculous attempt at announcing yesterday.

Aikman is rapidly becoming my main Reach for the Mute button guy now.

Not that I watch enough Sunday "action" to have it matter all that much.

I'm a Saturday fan!!!

I tried to find some Chandler clips and all I could find was this Charger promo. What it doesn't show is he elusiveness after the catch which is really what set him apart. He wasn't our regular kick returner, but he would be put in for that duty in emergencies (like we're behind and trying to make something happen). He probably didn't quite have Harvin's top end speed, but he was fast enough.

Link

quote:

Originally posted by CaneThing:
The reality is that Meyer didn't get the most of out of Harvin. Troy Aikman implied this yesterday when he said, "These are routes that Percy just didn't run at the University of Florida." Meyer was asking Harvin to beat D-linemen and linebackers when his natural dominance blossoms in squaring up with D-backs. He's just now becoming the player he's capable of becoming and you will see him continue to grow/flourish over the next 3 years now that he is in an accredited system.

This isn't a solo attack on UF, tho. Coker screwed up with Hester and we only got 1/4 of his potential out of him at The U. It happens, even at the highest rated, most credible NFL factories like The U. Bottom line: coaches need to let players be players.

You know what CaneThing I have tried to stay away from you and all the negative post you write about my Gators, our Coach and our players. And, I promise you I am very respectful. But, go away!! No one is listening, reading, or believing you. Isn't there a ACC board somewhere that is talking about the half way back Hurricanes?
Please....

Princess- It's a valid observation and I said it wasn't just directed at UF. The U has made the same mistakes in the past with certain players. Coaches become so locked into their playmakers that they fail to allow their playmakers to fully develop at their professional position. And I am a member at two Miami boards, as well as Warchant.

quote:

Originally posted by Neil35:
We need to wait and see about the Rookie of the Year deal. He needs to keep humble and playing team ball.

I can see that if he continues not only will he mwin the Rookie award but he will also make the Pro Bowl. He is dynamic in space.

The Vikings are pinching themselves to make sure they are not dreaming.

I am a Bucs fan

I am absolutly furious with our Front office right now. They passed on PERCY HARVIN to get...JOSH FREEMAN! How stupid can you get??? Espcially with how deep the QB draft will be this year!!!! We could have gotten McCoy! But no, sinc Raheem Morris was at Kansas State, he HAD to get Josh freeman.

Percy is the most dynamic player I have ever seen play college football. PERIOD. I never saw Chandler, so I don't know how to compare him to Percy. Think about this... in his entire career at UF, when was he not a mismatch for ANYONE on the opposing D? There was never an answer for Percy. Ask ANY D coordinator that UF played, and every one of them had to scheme their entire gameplan to try to negate Percy's gains. They couldn't stop him and they knew it. How many times did we have the Tebow to Harvin show while he was here? Percy PROVED that he could dominate with a football in his hands. THAT IS FOOTBALL!!! While he was here at UF, Percy was often the answer for our offensive woes. How is playing football as THE playmaker on an elite SEC team not utlizing his skills and preparing him for the NFL? For anyone to say that Percy wasn't utilized is an absolute F'n moron who has no football knowledge whatsoever. He was given the ball, and he produced like no other... just like he's doing in Minnesota.

As for Aikman, he is a brain-damaged dumbass who has probably never watched a Gator game in his life. How the F would he know what Percy did in college? Someone get that walking, talking vegetable a clip of Percy's highlights.

I find myself comparing Percy to DeSean Jackson every week. It will be interesting to see who ends up being the bigger game breaker. DeSean prolly has the edge right now.

quote:

It will be interesting to see who ends up being the bigger game breaker. DeSean prolly has the edge right now.

Agreed.

I personally have never seen anybody as dynamic as him on the football field. It's hard to describe exactly what he has but, I never seen anyone that can split defenders and accelerate like he does.

Im glad he played for Urban Meyer s
Im glad he didnt play for Illinoi s

quote:

Originally posted by WashingtonDCGator:

quote:

Originally posted by wyogator:
Have to comment on Chandler for some of our younger fans. First a couple of quotes:

"During his career with the Gators, he caught 92 passes for 1,963 yards and a (then) school record 22 touchdowns in a run-oriented offense, adding 6 more scores on rushes and kick returns."

"After college, Chandler was drafted by the New Orleans Saints with the third overall selection in the 1978 NFL Draft. Chandler was selected to the Pro Bowl after his second season in the league after finishing with 1,069 yards and 6 touchdown receptions. He led the NFL in receiving yards (1,032) and receiving touchdowns (9) for the strike-shortened 1982 season. His 129 yards receiving per game that year is still an NFL record [2]. One of his more notable performances was in a 1981 AFC playoff game known as The Epic In Miami, where he caught six passes for 106 yards and returned a punt 56 yards for a touchdown in the Chargers 41-38 victory. He also caught nine passes for 124 yards in a playoff win over the Pittsburgh Steelers in the following season."

Checking the Florida record book Chandler still has the highest career yards per catch (21.3) and the highest career TD reception ratio (a TD every 4.18 catches) of any Florida receiver ever. By my personal observations of both careers, Chandler was every bit as elusive as Harvin and had maybe the best hands of any Florida receiver ever. We actually had a decent passing game his soph and junior years, but we had no effective passer his senior year and he was inserted as tailback some of the time.

Number 3 pick in the draft isn't too shabby followed by a pro bowl NFL career.

Wow, thanks for the history lesson. I wish I had the pleasure of watching Wes play. He sounds like he was one hell of an athlete!

ditto

quote:

Originally posted by Gaturprincess:
You know what CaneThing I have tried to stay away from you and all the negative post you write about my Gators, our Coach and our players. And, I promise you I am very respectful. But, go away!! No one is listening, reading, or believing you. Isn't there a ACC board somewhere that is talking about the half way back Hurricanes?
Please....

Don't mind him princess. He's not real. He's not a Cane fan. As annoying as Cane fans are, there is absolutely no way a Cane fan would spend every waking minute on a Gator board. Someday the truth will come out, until then, just sit back and have a good laugh.

Guys, don't bother arguing with cainestain. I've figured out who he really is. Based on his incredible insight and endless hours of "breaking down game film," cainestain is none other than the amazing, the genious, MEL KIPER JR!

Wow, we get the honor of having mel visit the GSMB every day. Give him a hand, everybody!

Of cousre CT misses the boat again.

I moved him up one round and picked him in my draft 112th overall. So I've watched every Vikes game this year. I will go so far as to say that the Vikings should be giving him a few more touches on reverses and slot counters using Peterson as the ultimate decoy.

quote:

Originally posted by CaneThing:
Princess- It's a valid observation and I said it wasn't just directed at UF. The U has made the same mistakes in the past with certain players. Coaches become so locked into their playmakers that they fail to allow their playmakers to fully develop at their professional position. And I am a member at two Miami boards, as well as Warchant.

Somebody has too much free time.

All the comments about Wes Chandler. Anyone remember when he caught a TD pass and was attacked by the Auburn eagle at the back of the end zone? I think it was him.

TN Swampthing

quote:

Originally posted by TommyGator:
I heard that comment by Aikman, too and thought it was a definite slap at Urban and UF. Of course anything anti Gator is taken as gospel by cocainethink.

If Pecry wasn't prepared for the NFL, how come he is faring so well?

I heard the comment he made too. That is what some of the experts thought when they saw Percy at the combine. They thought that he couldn't run those routes prior to watching him practice. After proving otherwise, Percy quickly corrected and defended UM's system by saying "we used to run those routes all the time in practice, we just never really did it in the game." Please go back and look at practice on Coachurbanmeyer.com and you will see that the WRs on the team do run those routes all the time. This just shows that some people are just ignorant about UM's system and can't believe that it produces top NFL talent.

quote:

Originally posted by oxrageous:
You wouldn't think a guy could argue with multiple NC's, but CaneThing always finds a way.

Listen, the record doesn't show the entire story. UF winning 2 out of the last 3 NCs is just like UF beating UGA 17 out of the last 20 times.

Sure, on the surface, that *looks* like domination. But the un-funky fresh uni's and the insider sources I have all over the nation tell me that UF is almost 0-fer moral victories.

One thing i think EVERYBODY EVERYBODY is forgetting to point out too is that it wasn't any old nickel back he beat off the line of scrimmage too, that was Charles Woodson he dusted for that touchdown. Absolutely DUSTED DUSTED him.

quote:

Originally posted by murdamal86:
One thing i think EVERYBODY EVERYBODY is forgetting to point out too is that it wasn't any old nickel back he beat off the line of scrimmage too, that was Charles Woodson he dusted for that touchdown. Absolutely DUSTED DUSTED him.

There seems to be an echo in your post. You should get that checked out.

Percy is in line for rookie of the year, and CT is trying to make the argument he wasn't utilized properly at UF. CT you would have a better argument if you said the world was flat. Complete nonsense. Did I hear someone say they picked up Percy in the 14th round?? Shocking. What a steal!!