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Traveling Gator Head Ball Coach  |
If we had a balanced budget, this is what it would take to cover our expenses, and this does not include service on the debt. If people were to understand that these are rates that they would have to pay, maybe they would be a little more demanding of our congress to cut the spending out.
FWIW, I have no way of verifying this information is correct but have no reason to doubt it.
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Heisman Gator |
It won't all come from the spending side. Some tax increases will be necessary.
--------------------------------------------------- “A tenacious hold on trivial fact is the secret of my genius” - Agathon the Seer |
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All-American Gator |
Taxes are for wusses!! Who needs Taxes? Tax cuts will create more revenue. |
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Heisman Gator |
Given certain scenarios, they can create more revenue. But when the hole is this deep, starving the beast isn't the whole answer. --------------------------------------------------- “A tenacious hold on trivial fact is the secret of my genius” - Agathon the Seer |
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Head Ball Coach |
Very good article, and shows the magnitude of the problem we have. By 2012, you would have to multiply everybody's current rate by a factor 1.8, almost double everybody's income taxes. While spending needs to be controlled, by the magnitude of this problem, we are not just going to be able to find a cut a trillion per year, or roughly 25% of the federal budget. You would be talking about massive cuts in defense and entitlements, which will never happen. Spending cuts and spending control is needed, but there are other ways to tax other than income tax. Consumption taxes, gas taxes, energy taxes. Truth is we need them all. I am becoming more and more pessimistic that we will solve this problem. There is no way we can address without painful spending cuts and tax increases, and neither side right now is willing to do either.
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Traveling Gator Head Ball Coach |
Me too and I fear for the quality of life that my children will have because of it. Although the thought of uprooting from everything I know and starting all over again is scary, we are still discussing immigrating to Australia to give our kids a chance at a better future. My wife doesn't understand my pessisism so it is a hard sell right now but who knows. |
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Head Ball Coach |
Some of your fears may be well founded, but seems like you are going a bit overboard. I have been to Austrailia, I liked it, but what makes you think that is the answer? I kind of got the impression that their public policy is more socialistic, I had heard of conversations of people being "on the dole". Their tax burdens are higher than ours. In general, they did not strike me as motivated and work driven as US citizens are - one can argue that is good, but it seems odd coming from somebody who consistently argues from the hard right point of view. Also, you tongue in cheek talk about moving out of the country, worry about your kids future, etc, but when presented with a proposal to cut spending and modestly increase taxes, you reject it because you seem to be against all taxes. Sorry, not sure where your head is at.
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Traveling Gator Head Ball Coach |
taxes evenly distributes across all groups and well spent on solid long term improvements are not objectionable. taxes being wasted to support a government that is way too big, people that are way too lazy, and a military that is way too expensive and far reaching are objectionable. I just think that we need to quit wasting money and the taxes that we collect would be enough. I work on government contracts and the amount of waste that I see everyday is disgusting yet if the firm was to point out stupid wastefuls pending decisions by lifelong public employees, our workload would dramatically decrease. Makes me ill sometimes to see the decisions made totally indpendent of any cost benefit analysis.
australia has extremely low debt, high quality of lfe, incredible amount of natural resources, a good immigration policy, great fishing  and isn't spending their taxes trying to save the world or be the world's policeman. I haven't spent enough time there to truly understand everything but from what little bit of research I have done, it seems like the best viable alternative to condemning my kids to a lifetime of depressed standard of living to pay for the stupid things we have been doing for the past 20 - 40 years and seemed hell bent on continuuing to do with no vision as to the long term consequences.You got a better suggestion as to a country with a solid long term outlook that is anglo in nature? New Zealand maybe? I consider myself much more libertarian than hard right, not religious at all, think our military is way too big, think we need to dramatically reduce government, favor gay rights, pro-abortion,....in my opinion, and I've said it many times, both parties are equally corrupt and have no intent of doing anything to really fix the problems that we have. Don't know how you get far right out of that. |
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Head Ball Coach |
About 15 years ago I spent about 3 weeks in Australia, and about 10 years ago 3 week in New Zealand. The only places have I have travelled internationally. I enjoyed both, for different reasons. Australia is very americanzied in many aspects, just seems to be a little bit more laid back. Also, it just seems like things are 10 years behind the U.S. Different places had different feel to it - I kind of liked Melbourne, Sydney was OK. Would have liked to go to Perth - my cousin spent a couple of years over there, liked it, great beaches and fairly uncrowded compared to here. New Zealand is all about the natural beauty - people are very much into hiking, long holidays, etc. It seems to me in some respects the standard of living in both places is less, especially in New Zealand. Seems like cars are more modest and older, as are houses. Middle class houses there are like small houses sometimes seen in the midwest. Funny thing though when you are there those things seem less important, which was nice. Also, it struck me that both places, especially New Zealand, are more live for the moment, not worrying about things like safety. People routinely hitch hike. In the course of 3 weeks, I was literally on the scene of 3 different accidents. Occasionally a tour bus will topple off a cliff with a narrow winding road with little visibility. Over here that would be headline news, there it is just...Meh.. I am glad I went to both places.
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True Gator |
I think New Zealand would be a great place to live, but when I was there they were reporting hundreds of people in Christchurch actually dying from heart problems while waiting for surgery. It's a pretty tough to immigrate to because there social support system is already overburdened and therefore they restrict a lot of immigration.
But as l-boy stated, your taxes are going to be higher there or in Australia than in the U.S. In New Zealand up to $70,000 dollars, I assume NZ dollars, is taxed at 33% and then there is a 12.5% sales tax, a 1.7% accident tax, etc. Gas is heavily taxed. I don't know about property taxes. Food and housing are relatively inexpensive, but the average salary is a lot lower than in the U.S. And you've got to like rugby. Remember in the 80s when everyone was thinking about moving to Australia? Lots of people got ripped off by fly-by-night employment agencies. Taxes there seem to be equivalent to NZ. Tax on gas is $1.52 per gallon--ouch. Go to Alaska. The government gives you money there. |
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Heisman Gator |
There in lies part of the problem. Somehow defense spending is seen as this sacred cow. Second in sacred status to only Social Security. How about cutting defense spending dramatically, pulling the US military back to defend the borders of the United States and let China, with its $19 trillion surplus and the BRIC countries take their turn at playing "world cop". I would almost be euphoric paying my new higher federal taxes IF, I ever saw those kinds of REAL cutbacks in military/defense activities and spending. |
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Freshman Gator |
Defense cuts sounds nice but that means people will lose their jobs because of it. The sacred cow is education and the overall massive entitlement programs including the healthcare reform that most of you seem to favor in its present state. The projected spending for 2010 on medicare/medicaid and SS is 1.7 trillion. Add another 1.2 trillion to that for healthcare reform and is almost 3x what we spend of defense. Some defense cuts are fine by me but I'm not fine with overall half of the federal budget going to massive entitlement programs. If we had been more concerned about following the text on how to run the govt as opposed to trying to create the United States of Utopia things could have been different. No hope for that now I'm afraid.
. Thats part of the U.S and they give money away in the U.S, not just Alaska. Run for office and you'll see. "No one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts. (he points to the sword he just completed) But this... this you can trust." Father of Conan the Barbarian |
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All-American Gator |
What about drilling for oil and getting revenues and lower the cost of oil? Killing two birds with one stone. Since Mexico, Canada and Cuba are doing that.
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Head Ball Coach |
If taxes are raised right now this country would go off the deep end financially speaking over night. You talking about pulling capital out of investment projects which would send the market down to the worthless levels on almost every sector.
The Great Depression will look like the Great Bull Market compared to what would happen. Why? America has more people on the public dole right now than ever before. We have more people getting money or assistance through programs that absolutely bleed this country dry. Programs that they never payed a dime into and suck the funds out of this country like a big fat piglet sucking on a skinny sow hog's teat. |
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Heisman Gator |
Agree we're probably in a pretty precarious situation. Nonetheless, the deficit won't come down significantly without some tax increases at some point. --------------------------------------------------- “A tenacious hold on trivial fact is the secret of my genius” - Agathon the Seer |
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Heisman Gator |
The damn beast won't die!!! Idiots keep on loaning the beast money and more money. I guess the loaners don't deserve to keep it then. The loaners better not come crying to me for a bail out. Darn, that was painful. |
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Heisman Gator |
I broached this with my wife about 5 years ago. She said I was a looney. Oh, and not just no, but hell no. She still does not see it. Unfortunately, I beginning to believe our leaders [sic] do not either. I can forgive my wife, but not my leaders. I've been praying there is something on the horizon (other than hope) that will improve productivity tremendously. I'm not hearing the good news about clean/renewable/economical energy I once was. I am afraid we have broken the event horizon. Oh, my company is bracing for a very, very bad Q1 '10. Expecting another double digit decline in sales, starting this month. We are heading towards 60-70% of the market peak 2.5 years back. More heads will roll, more plants will shutter, and companies will fold. Sorry to be such a pes. Darn, that was painful. |
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Heisman Gator |
Agreed!!!! Darn, that was painful. |
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Heisman Gator |
A couple of years back I said our best case scenario may be to play Great Britain and slip quietly downstage as China assumes our role. The above seems like a prescription for doing just that. --------------------------------------------------- “A tenacious hold on trivial fact is the secret of my genius” - Agathon the Seer |
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Head Ball Coach |
As for Alaska - also you have Sarah Palin keeping an eye on the Soviets for you. Always a plus. As to Rugby comment - when I went to Australia, cricket was on everywhere. Some international tournament, and cricket matches seem to last for days. We go to bars and there is always G- damned cricket going on, and I have no idea what is happening. It just seems to go on and on until they decide to stop playing.
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Head Ball Coach |
We are at the point where we have to decide that we can't control the world, and all the bad things that happen out there. Our philosophy has always been we are rich enough to manipulate everything to try to defend ourselves, our interests and our international friends. Problem is, we are the only nation willing to pay for that, and everybody else sits back and let's us do it. As for China - let's say they takeover Taiwan - do we retaliate? At this point I say no, we just can't afford to, both monetarily and the risk of losing precious US soldiers lives. If other countries are not willing to pay for that "service" of protection- at a significant premium I might add, then we shouldn't do it. Spending a trillion to remake Iraq and Afghanistan is just beyond our means. We have to find ways to protect ourselves without necessarily trying to rebuild and remake the world.
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Head Ball Coach |
We just don't get there is people keep pulling things off the table, and you are pulling defense off the table. As to health care reform, the 10 year cost is approx 1 trillion. That is not one year cost - and it supposedly budget neutral. Having said that, given the fiscal mess, if there were comprehensive budget cuts, across the board, as well as tax increases, I would support mostly scrapping or deferring health care reform in its present form, as much as I think we need it. If you just put into law that insurance companies cannot exclude due to pre-existing conditions, and employers who do not provide insurance or people who do not purchase insurance pay a tax to help fund additional expanded medicaid, medicare or some private option, that would be a start.
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Traveling Gator Head Ball Coach |
 What he said. |
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True Gator |
Education? Teachers are getting laid off or taking salary cuts. I don't think it's nearly the sacred cow that military is and it's just as much about jobs. Following the text? What is that code for? Not going to run for office--ain't part of the good ol' boy network. |
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True Gator |
I've never been to Australia, mostly for the reasons you mentioned in your earlier post--it's always struck me as a close cousin to the U.S. But I know what you're saying about the bars. Every one I went into in NZ seemed to be centered on rugby and it also appeared that there was quite a bit of betting involved as well. And both of these countries are dependent on the U.S., at least implictly, for defense. There's no way NZ could defend itself. It can barely afford infrastructure--the main highway on the South Island is two-lane all the way. And I agree that they appear to be behind the U.S. in many ways, but that's one of the more appealing things about the place. It seems to be simpler, cheaper and safer, the old small- town atmosphere that many Americans long for. |
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Head Ball Coach |
What part do people not understand? You raise taxes and the slice of governments pie is not going to increase but decrease. There is less money to spend which stimulates the economy insteaad of the opposite when you increase taxes.
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Freshman Gator |
Text is code for .....Constitution. "No one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts. (he points to the sword he just completed) But this... this you can trust." Father of Conan the Barbarian |
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Head Ball Coach |
I thoroughly enjoyed both places, but you do miss some of the creature comforts - the TV absolutely sucked for instance. The flip side is it forced you to get out and do something.
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Freshman Gator |
Hence the need for the "Fair Tax" or something similar. Neither will get a hearing because the idiots in congress won't give up nay part fo their power base which comes from taxes. They know better how to spend your money than you do, supposedly! Cutting the corporate tax rates would do more to stimulate the economy by enticing maufacturing back to the US rather than other countries. There would also have to be some kind of union concessions which will never happen as long as Obama is in office. He's too indebited to them. Haven't heard anything about tort reform either. That would save billions of $$$ a year in friviolous lawsuits. You know the Dems. Never met a tax they didn't like!!!! Ag8tor "It's GREAT to be one" |
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Head Ball Coach |
I suspect this will fall on deaf ears, but here we go anyway - The fair tax is effectively a 30% national sales tax on just about everything. If it is really revenue neutral as claimed compared to current income tax policy (which I seriously doubt) then to be budget deficit of zero it would need to be about 55%. Add to that most states already have sales tax, so you would have sales tax rates in excess of 60% - so it just wouldn't fly. At this point, I do think we need a supplemental consumption tax - either sales or VAT - it seems that most nationns go with a VAT as it is less likely to be suspect to tax avoidance manuevers. As to corporate taxes - this is mostly just propoganda - while it is true that statuatory tax rates are pretty high, the actual real effective tax rates paid by corporations are pretty low - according to this about 13%. I would support a lower statuatory rate and less exemptions though. Link
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